What The Holy Hell Is Going On?

[Bobo]

I realize gcast "started it" and I'm just as ******ed at him for making this partisan. IT ISN'T. But he was slammed for it, and rightly so, and it should have been dropped. WE failed and WE are suffering. And WE had better kick the living $hit out of anyone involved, then come back and straighten out OUR mess.

Personally, I have never, as in not ever, been anything less than amused, let alone angry, about anything written on this board but your remark had me incensed, and gcast's too. I apologize for going off but I served in the Army, I worked for the NSA, and I speak fluent Russian. You can put two and two together and guess what I might have been doing. I tell you this just to prove that your idea of liberals is wrong, and that I have first-hand experience with how intelligence gathering and security work in this country. And as someone who actually was affected by budget cuts and a lessened emphasis on doing the job I can't sit here and see you pin it broadly on "liberals" when I know **** well it was a combination of liberal aversion to violence AND conservative religious and law and order concerns, as in "why do we have foreign criminals on our payroll", on Capitol Hill that led us down this path.

Regardless, this is not the time for this discussion.

[Todd Patten]

Can we get off this partisan finger pointing BS? It takes both republicans and democrats(as well as a few other independants) to run this country. Mistakes have been made and second guessing will not change anything.

The focus needs to be on who did this and how we respond.

[gcast]

To all of you that have taken me to task for my remarks last night let me make myself very clear. I firmly believe that G W should have spoken to the people of this country from either the grounds of the White House or from the oval office. He should have been there to show us that we don't bend to any SOB that thinks he can take us on.
I question wether AF1 was in danger considering the fact that it was being escorted by fighter jets.
Regarding the credible evidence,Ashcrft this morning said it was true but refused to elaborate. Why not credible evidence of the other strikes.
And by the way I would have made the same post regardless of who sat in the oval office. My opinion and you can take all your shots at me now.

[Jim W]

Point taken Bobo. I apologize.

[walrus]

Fox news is reporting that they have learned from sources that a flight attendant has been removed from the rubble at WTC and her hands were tied behind her back with wire. They are also reporting that they believe a war criminal(terrorist) has been recovered from cock pit area. They believe it is a scumbag because he is not dressed in pilots uniform.

[HankWP]

... while having served in the US Navy as a Radioman, RM-2318 billet... Techincal Controller, during peacetime, I had access to cryptographic equipment, key cards, tapes, and a plethora of classified information... FOUO, confidential, secret, top secret, and then specific categories... eyes only, cosmic, noforn, etc... I can say this much... there is a boatload of classified information out there during peacetime... every bit of information has some classification to it... now since this attack on Washington everything is probably classified at a higher level due to risks... it is a part of the filtering... need to know.

As Bush senior spoke... from Boston, he said that several people called George W and apologized for second guessing/questioning his actions... regarding the AF1 and jumping issue... again, knowing what I know and how things work down in Clinton MD... this is norma protocol... fighter jets are not normal protocol...

I commend the brave men and women, officers and enlisted, and civilian GS/WG employees who serve in our DoD and DoN, etc... bravo zulu for a job well done.

In my youth I was a staunch republican... then I became a staunch liberal democrat... but as of Tuesday I became a saddened American.

Henry.

[Dimpled Chad]

To Waterlover:
I'm in Eagan, and even Tuesday night there were the occasional plane taking off. I don't know what size/kind they were, but they didn't sound like military planes. There were about 6 over two hours. It was the same last night - every so often a plane would come over. I figured they were special dispensation planes - blood (for NYC) or emergency organ donation flights (not necessarily headed for NYC) or some such.

[Todd Patten]

gcast -- I just prefer to ignore you...

Guys -- this is from a post on another board that I frequent. I thought it was very poignant and a reminder that we need to remember who the enemy really is...

<i>
no, I'm not Iranian, but my neighbor is. And he's very religious. Here is an editorial from the daily newspapers Khayan.

"It is time to take a step back and pray for guidance. For sanity. For enlightenment.
Tens of thousands of our brothers perished mindlessly on Tuesday. Let us not question the will of God, but less ask Him to guide our actions in this difficult time.
We are on a knife edge.
Our duty as Muslims is to assist and aid those who have suffered in every way we can. That includes helping legal authorities identify those responsible, whether American, Iranian or even foreign. We cannot relent over this - we can not allow injustice to pass in this case, just as we can not other injustices to pass. Even when they do not directly affect us immediately, every unaddressed injustice weakens each and every one of us.
But make no mistake about it. We can not let Fascists and Fanatics in the West accuse Islam for what has happened.
How do we do this?
Not with threats, not with beating of chests, but with Love.
Islam is about love. We must show them with out actions what we believe in, our deeds must reflect the Glory and Greatness of God.
We also cannot afford to let a minority of Evil men and women kill and murder in the name of Islam. They are not Muslims. They are devils or, at the very least, have been possessed by devils.
Their hatred may have rational roots, but it has turned into an irrational sense of vengeance which is the worst possible insult to God and Islam.
We, as Muslims, must not allow them to use Islam as a shield or as an excuse.
God is our light. We pray that we can find and follow his light. If we are to enlighten the world, we must do so by example.
The past is relevant only as a guide to the future. The United States of America was our enemy. Some of us may hate what they did and what they still do.
But no man can agree and love all his brothers' actions. And the United States of America are our brothers'. We must love them in this difficult time. We must, through example, not coercion, show them a different path, one of love.
But we can only do this if we constantly and harshly look at ourselves and re-evaluate our own actions as well. That is God's way.
Most of all, let us remember that whoever committed this crime inflicted a terrible blow not just to the United States of America, but to Islam as well.
We call on Muslims worldwide to rise up, peacefully but firmly, and enlighten the world.
Violence is not our way.
Our way is love, unconditional love.
</i>

[Dirty]

CBS reported that there ar 4763 people officially missing in New York, including the people on the planes.

[Greyeagle]

I suspect AF1 was most vulnerable on the ground, not in the air. Hence, it stayed away from the east coast until air traffic had been re-reouted or had landed. The last thing the country needed was for the Prez. to be in killed. The proper security measures were taken given the uncertainty of the situation. I think very few citizens were concerned about from Bush's remarks originated, except for the putz anchorman at ABC and our friend Gcast. Even Stephanopolis told him Jennings to basically give it a rest.

Bobo - I have a cousin who recently retired from the Navy as a Commander. Spent many years commanding a sub and later went to Naval Intelligence to end his career. Somewhat similar background but extremely different political views. No real point here other than I find differences like that interesting.

Sounds like you'd be a hell of guy to have a beer or two with. You could tell stories, but then you'd have to kill me. :D

[Handyman]

What my stries are not interesting enough for you Greyeagle ;)

[Scott Murphy]

The NY Times reported that the German police have searched a number of apartments in Hamburg related to a recently formed radical Muslim group and took some people into custody. Given the Germans' experience in dealing with terrorists, I would expect more searches/arrests to follow.

Regardless of where Bush was when this was unfolding, I am in no position to second guess those in charge of his security.

[BUNU9801]

I have to agree with all of those that say that we have to stop the finger pointing...Bush this....Bush that.... he, we, they, should have, would have, could have.......STOP!!!!

A great tragedy has hit this nation..... I personally have friends who worked in the WTC towers and I thank God that they are okay...and I hope that their missing friends and relatives can be found.

So out of respect for all of those people....can we stop with the democrats this and republicans that crap.

Also, I wanted to make a point.....I'm not sure if everyone has heard, but apparently two of those hijackers who were suppose to be on the planes weren't......One has been stopped in Florida and is cooperating with Police...and he has informed the police that his brother actually died one year ago.....This is starting to get really suspicious.....As it is I've thought from the beginning that it is very strange that the FBI was able to find evidence in rental cars and hotels......it seems strange that terrorist who were able to carry out such strategic activities also left soo much evidence. Also the whole one credit card used for sooo many services seems strange to me. Why not just use cash!
Hmmm!

[Scott Murphy]

CBS radio just reported that 2 firefighters have been found alive and are walking out.

[Chris Lerch]

As opposed to criticizing someone, I'd like to praise Mayor Giuliani. I've never been a fan of the guy, but I think he's been just incredible through this. He's been everywhere, to the point of almost getting killed when the towers came down. Not a hint of politics in anything he's done. He's answered every question and been totally honest and accessible (okay - a bit of a shot at Bush here, who has yet to hold a press conference).

Giuliani has not been afraid to show his genuine feelings without using them for effect, the way I always thought Bill Clinton did.

The guy has led New York well through this. My hat's off to him.

[Todd Patten]

A photo on MSNBC shows President Bush with his eyes wheling up as he was speaking with the media. Stirs your emotions. A reminder that he too is dealing with the grief that has us all sharing thoughts here.

[AdamW]

OK folks ... this has been a GREAT thread. It's starting to deteriorate into bickering - including an ever-growing amount of foul language. Name-calling at Clinton - name-calling at Bush - name-calling at liberals, conservatives, each other, blah, blah, blah....

Cut it out now - or I will recommend to the Administrator that the thread be shut down.

[Bobo]

No it's not Adam. It's pretty much been self-policed and done with. And if you actually read the last few posts you'd see that.

And I don't know what daycare center/fantasy land you live in but disagreements happen when adults converse, especially about what is just a slightly emotional event. So why don't you shut up, and save us your "I'm gonna tell" childishness. You missed your chance to prove how enlightened and intelligent you are. Sorry.

[Bobo]

Jim, you certainly never need to apologize to me, we've "known" each other here for long enough. If anything I flew off the handle, emotions are high.

Greyeagle, maybe someday we can have a beer and just talk about hockey, which sounds pretty **** good about now.

[Scott Murphy]

Bobo, preach on brother.

Chris, I agree with you. I think Rudy has done a great job of leading his city and its people through this disaster.

Pray for more miracles, people.