What The Holy Hell Is Going On?

[Craig P.]

They said the airlines have started moving empty planes around to prepare for resumption of service. That might have been what was flying by... I don't know about you, but if I can hear it, I can usually tell military aircraft from civilian aircraft, or I think I can.

Unconfirmed reports on ABC that the Taliban have placed Bin Laden under house arrest. IF this is true, I can only conclude that they are scared to death of what would happen if the U.S. decided he was responsible and they weren't able to turn him over.

I should add that, in my opinion, if his organization is responsible, Bin Laden is not nearly enough. The entire organization needs to be brought down, not just the head.

[JuveGG24]

Hey--This website was brought to my attention. I found it very powerful. --beyondirc.com--

I don't know if anyone else has posted this site, I can't keep up with all the new posts.

God bless this country.

[Handyman]

I live in Minnesota, and apparentlu military jets have been asked to fly overhead here!! This is getting to close for comfort :(

[Wild Sioux Fan]

juve, thanx 4 posting that link.


"...and you will pay."

[waterlover]

Handy- I don't know if asked is the right word....then again I don't know what else to call it. I believe its the 119th figher division of the Air National Gaurd in Duluth that's patroling the skies over the Twin Cities and Northeastern MN. Fargo ND also has an Air National Gaurd division (the Happy Hooligans (?)) that is patroling the Western part of MN and much of Eastern ND. Its not that they have any reason to suspect anything's going on, its just a way of showing we're out there and making sure we're ready in case anyone does try anything. With all the military planes we've got moving around right now I don't think anyone's foolish enough to try anything.

Incidentally, I did just hear a plane fly over (didn't sound military) for the first time since yesterday morning. I live on the North side of Minneapolis, 20 or so miles from the airport on the South side, and only hear 20-30 planes go over a day and none at night. I can only assume it was Fed Ex (supposedly able to return flying tonight) or one of the planes full of stranded passengers arriving or leaving.

[devsrule]

Newark airport just reopened to accept the flights that were headed there when everything happened. Since Newark was the airport one of the hijacked planes departed from, I would think that most airports across the country are opening now. There's no word re: LaGuardia or Kennedy.

From personal experience, I'd think that Newark would be much easier to up the security in at the point where you start heading to the gates. The terminal I always use is very cleanly designed (although I don't know how much their construction affects that) while LaGuardia is pretty chaotic and the checkpoints aren't physically as neatly laid out.

I feel for anyone who was stranded away from NYC; it must be incredibly frustrating.

-m

[RichS]

As mentioned earlier, FR Mike Judge, the FDNY chaplain was lost yesterday. He was a Franciscan Friar from the province that covers much if not all of the Northeast.

I did not personally know him but my wife and many others in our parish did. i have since learned what a marvelous man he was. When our pastor announced his death at our prayer service Tuesday night, there were many gasps of disbelief. Our pastor had known him for many years and he and the other Friars who knew him well are quite shaken by his death.

Please pray for him and his Franciscan brothers who continue their special ministry.

[Ralph Baer]

Jen, I have not heard anything about any tourists being killed in/near the Pentagon. There isn't really much for tourists to see at the Pentagon. However, I don't know it for sure. Pentagon City Mall is quite near, at least as the crow flies, and it always seems to have a lot of tourists, but I haven't heard anything about it being affected.

They took attendence here at work yesterday (I work for DOD) to be sure that no one was unaccounted for in case they were visiting the Pentagon for some meeting. By the way, in 27 years of working in DC for the Navy, I have never had an occasion to go to the Pentagon. I have always joked to people that it was one of my goals before I retire.

Let my apologize to devsrule if I have helped spread a false rumor about #5 WTC collapsing. That is what I heard on TV just at that moment. A reporter was interviewing someone who was running from the scene. I was going to post something else but I posted that instead. I now know why people use the word "allegedly".

One more thing, the lab where I worked, has gone down from being under Threatcon Delta to Threatcon Charlie today. I didn't have my trunk searched as I entered as happened yesterday -- however I was riding by bike. I had been somewhat expecting them to search the panniers where I keep my work clothing.

[HankWP]

Originally posted by gcast
The White House thru its mouthpiece has said that it had credible evidence that the White House and Air Force 1 were in dangerof being destroyed by the terrorists and thats why W went into hiding.In my honest opinion thats a lot of BS.He was scared spitless and bunkered.Come on W tell us the truth.
And when asked about his phone calls he listed calls to Russia and China along with Britain and Canada. Want to bet he called Mommy and Daddy to.
And when is he going to get off his *** and visit the poor chumps in NY that are busting their humps like those at the Pentegon :confused: :confused:

Your post is not only reprehensible, but also ignorant. Ignorant to the use of commonsense, less governmental security measures... regardless if those were the true targets... there are certain things that we as the general public have no "need to know"... in lieu of quick answers in these quick media people speculate... speculation with fear produces inaccuracies and half-truths... READ THIS WHOLE POST IF YOU DOUBT ME.

[Tangent: Of course, there are things that go on... things that we do not need or probably want to know... those actions ensure that we as Americans can live safely and securely... I fault no one in our Government about this messed up act... you cannot watch everyone all the time. - then you'll create a police state, 1984, Brave New World, etc... if you implement randon check at the airport, how soon how long will it take before a minority claims, "hey, you police men are racially profiling me... my civil rights"... and airport security will once again become a nuisance]

BAck to bush: Consider... if Washington DC is being bombed or terrorized... and the President is away on a trip... do you haul him right back to the middle of that mess? Comonsense say no, of course not... there would be a risk of his life being in danger... I think the Feds performed security measures to emergency protocol... quite well.

I have noticed that MSNBC clarified that too... while some other media organizations still report that the rebs/dems were upset... but they were not in the know... furthermore, what is the AF1 brought him back to Washington DC... and he was killed by a terrorist act... then people would say, "why on earth did they bring him back there?"...

Do not underestimate security measures and the President... they are not going to take any chances with his life... while it may appear cavalier... I believe the whole "incident" was handled the way AF1 and Secret Service wanted to handle it...

GCast you surprised me with this one... I am not a big Bush fan, in fact I am a liberal dem... and I admit, honestly, that Bush is handling himself and this whole mess very well.

Henry.

[Stillings]

Gcasts comments are probably the dumbest ever scribed in the history of the written word.

Congratulations for defaulting to personal political preference in a time of national crisis.

I don't care whether the plane was intended for the White House - we have bigger fish to fry folks.

Throughout the history of our republic President's have asked for advice and guidance from their predecessors. Considering GHW Bush is the most experienced living President on these issues, I would hope that his input would be sought. Pick up a book sometime *******.

[HankWP]

Maybe I am niave, stupid or ignorant... but I really do not think the White House Commuciations Agency owes Henry W. Piel or John Q Public an explanation for their actions in handling Bush's security... I was surpirsed that it even came up as an issue.

... while the initial attacks were going on we all though DC was armageddon... remember? Why on earth would the government jeopardize his safety... when the White House followed protocol and evacuated?!?!? Think... the Socviets had predetermined "hit" targets for ICBMs... the US Government would have reactionary plans... you would not land AF1 at Andrews AFB or even in close proximity...

I also am a little angry with the media in not excerising good judgement... when the reps/sens all got to gether and sang it sent a message... we are one, were are America... it is not a time for finger-pointing or blaming internally this agency or that agency... there will be a time for that... HOWEVER, IT WAS THE MEDIA THAT DID NOT ATTRIBUTE THE QUESTION OF BUSH'S ACTIONS IN AF1 TO ANY PARTICULAR PERSON, REP, SENATOR, ETC... IT WAS IMPLIED - BORDERLINE BAD ETHICS... THE MEDIA MAY HAVE CREATED THIS STIR... which I think is more probable than finger-pointing when both parties dropped the swords.

Henry.

PS I do not (did not) mean to start any arguments on this post... and I wil drop it here, as I intended this post to initally report things to and fro... sorry GCast.

HWP3

[rufus]

i'm not sure i favor a full-scale military response, or even select bombing of suspected terrorist targets. i think what i'd like to see is a kind of wyatt earp response to this attack. when earp's family was attacked, those suspected of the act were meticulously hunted down and killed over the course of many years.

i think some kind of seal, or cia black ops, directed at those responsible for these acts, as well as other terrorists around the globe, would be the way to go. just have these guys turn up dead, maybe next week, maybe five years from now, but just disappear from the face of the earth. no judge, no jury, no evidence left behind as to who was responsible. just a black shadow of justice cutting through the terrorist networks around the world.

if information pointing to the involvement of certain individuals is certain, and the location of these people is known and verifiable, then military action could be used as well. but i fear that military force, if used against the wrong targets, will only serve to strengthen the resolve of these people against the united states, and lead to more attacks such as this one.

[walrus]

Like Bush is actually going to be a better leader because he is in DC or in the air . A non issue IMHO. The Secret Service handles Bushs security, they call the shots. If Bush was in his second term instead of his first 8 months then maybe he calls the shots. Again a non issue.

[Got 6, Want More]

Originally posted by x1g27s
Very surprised the experts haven't pointed this out, but the 757 and 767 are very large planes (can carry 200-250), and it simply CANNOT be a coincidence that the selected flights were such large planes with what is presumably a history of very sparse occupancies. Much easier to overtake 50-100 passengers than a full planeload.

Anyone have any info (other than speculation) on how many people are missing and presumed lost?
The organizations that are gathering info on the missing should have some count...

Boeing 757's and 767's are a combined fleet, meaning they have almost identical cockpit configurations. On United, the pilots who fly one also fly the other. That is part of the reason these planes were selected. The fact that they were full of fuel is another. Small point of correction, but the United config of 767's holds about 168 passengers as much of the cabin space is occupied by First and Business Class seats with a ton of room each. Ironically, though the 767 is a bigger aircraft than the 757, the 757 configuration, at least on United, holds more passengers. By the way, these flights do not have a history of small loads at all. I think the terrorist plan would have been prosecuted regardless of whether or not the flights were full.

gcast, suffice it to say your remarks are disturbing and I believe I am not alone in asking you to think about how many people will be offended before making such remarks. You may dislike Bush's political views, but he is a decent, Christian man who undoubtedly feels the same emotions most of us feel. One of the great things about America is the freedom to have different opinions, and you are certainly entitled to yours. But there are good times and bad times to share thoughts such as yours and this is a bad time.

[Jim W]

rufus, the problem is that that mamby-pamby liberals got rid of most or all our operatives that are capable of that type of thing. We used to have highly trained killers in the CIA and NSA that could have slipped in and out of any country and killed just about anyone.

That's the type of thing we need to go back to. Have a large number of operatives that their sole mission is to scour the globe for terrorists and suspected terrorists and kill them, torturing them beforehand if possible. We need to make terrorism a very painful and dangerous profession to be in.

That said, I still think we need to make Afghanistan pay for harboring Bin Laden for so long. They knew he was a terrorist and they knew he had orchestrated many prior terrorist attacks. Yet they did nothing. Despite their comments that they oppose terrorism, they are secretly "high-fiving" each other about Tuesday's events. They need to pay and pay dearly to send a message that we won't stand for state supported terrorism. The harder it is for terrorists to find a base of operations, the harder it will be for them to organize any substantial terrorist attacks.

[Beth B]

The Federal Courthouse just received a bomb threat and all employees are out on Merrimack Street. This is so scary.

[Bobo]

This thread has been reaction and not analysis so I've held off responding but Jim, you can blow that "mamby-pamby liberal" stuff out your ***. One, this isn't the time for that partisan crap, two, I'm a liberal AND I used to work for the NSA, and I bet I've personally sacraficed more for and contributed to national security than most of you blowhard ***** conservatives ever dreamed of, and it was YOUR friggin god Reagan who absolutley slashed the FAA budget which led to the armed federal Air Marshalls being taken off domestic flights, you know, saving a few bucks because you whiny ******ants don't want to pay any taxes because it cuts into your ability to ****** your money away on ski-boats and motorcycles. F'ck off.

[Greyeagle]

Lets remember who we are (or should be) mad at: Terrorists, It's not each other, it's not a vast majority of Middle Easterners or Muslims, and it's not Isreal or Jews. Name calling, generalizations, and rash judgement will do no good. Try to keep the personal political views at arms length. If prior political discussions on this board have proved anything, it's is everyone's ideology is different, not necessarily right or wrong.

Bobo - Thanks for your service at the NSA - I for one appreciate the work of dedicated government employees like yourself.

Gopher Hockey: Hyperventilating

[Jim W]

First, I didn't start this $hit, gcast and others did and it really pis<b></b>sed me off but I'm willing to drop it. I sincerely appreciate your work for the NSA, honestly. We'll save these arguments for another time.

[gophergutz]

What really burns me in the Clinton Admin is their lack of respect to going after terrorism. Clinton really sat on his dick in wake of the USS Cole attack. It was reported on CNN this morning that in the last few weeks of Clinton's term, his intelligence new where Bin Laden was, but negated not to act.

For all the good things Clinton may have had a part in (ie. economy, etc..) he really failed in my mind to go after terrorism.