What The Holy Hell Is Going On?

[sig]

GCAST, You are a grumpy old man. The secret service did exactly what they were supposed to do. Make sure the president is safe. You are a moron.

[NCAA watcher]

Whatever else you want to say about him, Giuliano and his brass were on the front lines, and it cost many of them their lives. True leadership in a time of crisis.

[DavidB]

Gcast,

You truly are a moron. George Bush, whether you like him or not is the president of the United States and must be protected at all costs. Two hijacked planes already hit the WTC, 1 hit the Pentagon, why in the hell would you want the president to rush back to Washington at a time when we didn't know what was going on or if any other attacks were planned. The Secret Service was absolutely correct in keeping the president hidden until the situation became stabilized. All the top Congressional leaders went into secure locations as well, are they wimps too?

idiot.

[scsuboy]

gcast, this is a time to put our political ideologies behind us and stand behind the President and stand tall as a nation. We need to stand together, not as democrats or republicans, but as Americans.

Your post is very saddening.

[Chuck Murray]

Originally posted by gcast
The White House thru its mouthpiece has said that it had credible evidence that the White House and Air Force 1 were in dangerof being destroyed by the terrorists and thats why W went into hiding.In my honest opinion thats a lot of BS.He was scared spitless and bunkered.Come on W tell us the truth.
And when asked about his phone calls he listed calls to Russia and China along with Britain and Canada. Want to bet he called Mommy and Daddy to.
And when is he going to get off his *** and visit the poor chumps in NY that are busting their humps like those at the Pentegon :confused: :confused:

Gregg - I have enjoyed many of your posts over the last year.

But I think it's safe to say this one was not your finest moment.

Now is certainly not the time for some half-*****ed cheezy photo op, which is truly all his visit to NYC would be at this point.

To expect him to treat this situation like some kind of flood or earthquake - and not for a second do I minimize the impact that such events can have on individuals and society in general - is to ridiculously trivialize the staggering import of the issues at hand which must be given high priority. Y'know, like national security?!?

I don't recall FDR flying off to Pearl Harbor for some phony-baloney pep talk back in '41. Sorry if I don't see why this should be any different.

There is business at hand which must be dealt with. Those who are doing the heroic work in NYC aren't doing it for a pat on the back and a quick handshake from the President. The time will come when there is time to honor their work and sacrifices.

There is MUCH more important work to be done now before we really have the luxury of any kind of medal ceremonies. JMHO ...

[Da Big Bad Cow]

i thought both of the grumpy old men died :( :rolleyes:

[Scott Murphy]

I concur, Chuck. This is no time to engage in partisan sniping. This issue and its resulting aftermath require a united front, regardless of our differences of opinion on other issues.

[AdamW]

Originally posted by NCAA watcher
Whatever else you want to say about him, Giuliano and his brass were on the front lines, and it cost many of them their lives. True leadership in a time of crisis.

I was just talking to my father about this. It's the first time we've actually talked for a while since the attacks.

He's not a huge Giuliani fan. I think Giuliani can be a jerk, but he's done way more good than bad for NYC. We both agreed, however, that Giuliani has been BY FAR the best leader in this whole thing.

He's been thoroughly tremendous ... both in his words, and actions. It's nice to see a leader speaking from his heart, and still saying all the right things.

[Chuck Murray]

... FOX News reports that authorities have ordered the evacuation of the Empire State Building and Penn Station due to apparent concerns about bomb threats.

We can only hope that this is the work of some sicko kids with a bizarre idea of what constitutes a prank, and not more of what we saw yesterday.

What the holy he11 is going on, indeed ... :(:(:(

[jen]

Strangely, Milwaukee was to host Arabian Fest this weekend on the lakefront (one of the last summer festivals). It has been cancelled.

Just found out a girl from my hs class that lived near me growing up is still missing from WTC - her first day in NYC on a business trip.

A good friend of mine is on vacation in DC, but I heard no civilians on the ground were killed.. is that right?

[Chuck Murray]

Originally posted by jen
A good friend of mine is on vacation in DC, but I heard no civilians on the ground were killed.. is that right?

I believe (pray) that is correct, jen.

The folks at FOX News indicate that very tentative estimates on the death toll at the WTC may be as high in the 20,000-30,000 range. Apparently someone leaked that NYC had ordered 6,000 bodybags today. Sobering stuff. Terribly sad.

Supposedly the concern at the Empire State Building is based on what has been described as a "suspicious package".

Good news - FOX reports that the NYC police have apparently issued an "all-clear" bulletin. Thank God. :):)

[x1g27s]

Very surprised the experts haven't pointed this out, but the 757 and 767 are very large planes (can carry 200-250), and it simply CANNOT be a coincidence that the selected flights were such large planes with what is presumably a history of very sparse occupancies. Much easier to overtake 50-100 passengers than a full planeload.

Anyone have any info (other than speculation) on how many people are missing and presumed lost?
The organizations that are gathering info on the missing should have some count...

[AdamW]

Originally posted by x1g27s
Very surprised the experts haven't pointed this out, but the 757 and 767 are very large planes (can carry 200-250), and it simply CANNOT be a coincidence that the selected flights were such large planes with what is presumably a history of very sparse occupancies. Much easier to overtake 50-100 passengers than a full planeload.

Good point. I thought of the same thing.

[devsrule]

Originally posted by x1g27s
Very surprised the experts haven't pointed this out, but the 757 and 767 are very large planes (can carry 200-250), and it simply CANNOT be a coincidence that the selected flights were such large planes with what is presumably a history of very sparse occupancies.

I would think the primary factor in choosing planes was choosing cross-country flights and the amount of fuel that the plane would be required to have on board, then add in being near New York so they don't "waste" much fuel en route and the timing that they wanted.

FYI, occasionally I've tuned into "national" broadcasts instead of our local one and some folks seem to think that pre-9:00 a.m. was a good thing. Most employees of financial institutions (and they occupied the majority of the WTC) arrive at work by 8:30 if not much earlier. The timing may have saved some, but I don't imagine, percentage wise, that it helped much.

Earlier it had been hinted that I'd have to go into work tomorrow, but it appears that things are going to remain closed, possibly because of the instability of the Millenium and other buildings. Part of me wants to go asap just to have something to do though I can't imagine what it will be like.

It seems like I keep using the words "can't imagine" in my posts here and in personal emails. But that's how things are right now. We see things and we know they've happened and we know what the death toll will be like and we know it's going to take a lot to make downtown "normal" again, but there's just no way to really imagine it right now. I guess it's one of our brains' many coping mechanisms. People usually think of going into shock as being a bad thing, but the collective shock that people went into downtown yesterday saved people, both mentally and physically in keeping folks going.

Sorry, I guess I'm doing some of the "talking" they keep encouraging us to do via my fingers.

-melissa

[Millsy]

I found out tonight that the priest at the local Catholic church was in New York Yesterday. He was supposed to be on the Observation Deck of the WTC at 9:00. His group got off to a late start in the morning and were having coffee at a Cafe down the street. They were getting ready to go when the waitress asked if they wanted another cup. They stayed for one more and then walked out to head to the Towers. It was then that the first plane hit. He stuck around to administor counseling and last rites and is safe tonight.

[devsrule]

When your priest returns, please tell him thank you from this NYer. The bravery of some of the priests/ministers/etc. was wonderful. I don't think they are being allowed into the secured area right now, but the various emergency services' chaplains are likely present.

As may have been reported nationally, the fire department's head chaplain, Father Mike Judge, was killed in the collapse while giving last rites to another victim.

-m

[Eric]

To all those who lost friends and loved ones in this tragedy, my heart goes out to you. Those of you who live and work in New York as well.

If anyone wants an American Flag to post in their AIM profile or some other place, I have created one, which you are more than welcome to copy. Just copy and paste from my profile (AIM: SyracuseWolvrine). I realize the number of stripes is off, but this is a medium that is not very well suited to graphics. The message is still the same. (If you'd like to talk, that is, of course, allowed/encouraged as well)

For those that are trying to donate blood, and are being turned away, keep trying, or wait until next week. Human Blood has a rather short (5 days I've heard) shelf life, and the need for blood will be great next week as well. It's great to see so many people trying to donate now, but you can only donate once every 56 days, so it might be better to wait until next week or the week after. I'm sure that the blood will still be needed.

[Craig P.]

I believe it's the platelets that have a five-day lifespan. At least, that's the only one of the components that I recall seeing a limit on in the Houston-area blood bank web page.

[Craig P.]

I saw this in another forum I read:

From Jerry Pournelle's web site:
"Dear Jerry,

Following is a message which my one of my best friends passed along with permission to distribute to those who might be interested. It fills in the details that I missed in my original conversation with him and attempted to relate to you.

Tom has given me permission to distribute the message - please feel free to post it if you deem it appropriate.

Sincerely,

Art Russell, Major, US Army (Retired)

Message Follows:

Today was a tragedy for all of America and to my family, a very personal one. Lynn and my Niece Liz's husband, Jeremy Glick was on United flight 93 this morning. When the Hijackers took control of flight 93. Jeremy called my niece who in-turn conferenced him to 911. Jeremy relayed to the police what was happening as the hijacking unfolded. As our niece Liz listened, Jeremy told the police there were three Arab terrorists with knives and a large red box that they claimed contained a bomb. Jeremy tracked the second by second details and relayed them to the police by phone. After several minutes of describing the scene, Jeremy and several other passengers decided there was nothing to lose by rushing the hijackers. Although United Flight 93 crashed outside of Pittsburgh, with the loss of all souls. Jeremy and the other patriotic heroes saved the lives of many people on the ground that would have died if the Arab terrorists had been able to complete their heinous mission.

Please offer your prayers for all of those who perished or were injured in this tragic of all days and to our niece Liz Glick and her 2-month-old child, Emerson, who are left without their loving Husband and Father.

May we remember Jeremy and the other brave souls as heroes, soldiers and Americans' on United flight 93 whom so gallantry gave their lives to save many others.

Lynn, our four adult children and I are headed to New York to be with our family during this time of great sadness.

All of my best,

Tom"

"We find heroism in many places." (Pournelle's comment)

From John Ringo's pastor:

"He said, 'I know we're all going to die -- there's three of us who are going to do something about it,' " Colacicco said. "He then said, 'I love you, honey,' and that was the end of the conversation."

Thomas Burnett, 38, was a father of three and the chief operating officer for a company that deals in medical devices."

[AdamW]

I just had the very disconcerting feeling of having a number of jet planes fly over my house. They were VERY high up - they were merely specks, with flashing lights.

I first heard what sounded like the rumbling of a jet plane ... Knowing everything is closed, I went outside. I see three specks flying overhead, in succession.

I can only assume these were military planes. I live outside of Philadelphia, and these planes were headed South. From wherever, to who knows where.

Anyone else care to speculate what this was? I certainly hope it was military planes - because, otherwise, I don't know what it could have been.